monster are up in arms after hearing her concert may be in jeopardy. it conflicts with the wizards playoff attempts on may 15th. little monsters up in arms. that's it for "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ she's not your typical candidate. conservative joni ernst. a lieutenant army colonel who carries more than just lipstick in her purse. joni ernest will take aim at wasteful spending. and she's going to unload. oh and one more thing. joni doesn't miss much. >> give me a shot. >> oh, my goodness. good morning, everyone.

it's tuesday, may 6th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have "morning joe" contributor mark halperin. hello. anything going on in your life? former treasury official steve rattner. and in washington associate editor of "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson. tom just walked in as well. >> hi. how are you doing today? >> very dapper today. >> you as well. >> so big day today. we had jim gaffigan on yesterday. it was nice of him to come here. part of a rollout. yesterday he had his obsessed thing that he ripped off from you. >> kind of twisted it up a bit. >> his entire face was made out of doughnuts. >> that was good. >> but of course that was all a big lead-in today. obsessed out in paperback. >> yes, it is. it is out in paperback. and i still hear from a lot of people about it who have a very unhealthy relationship with food that can connect very well with

this book. and so we'll be talking about it more at a conference coming up in hartford. >> oh, good. that's great. >> out in paperback today. thank you. >> congratulations. >> thank you. very much. i'm going to move onto news now. the president's minimum wage plan remains deeply unpopular among many congressional republicans. but yesterday one conservative leader said he is stunned by his party's take on the issue. >> look. i voted for them when i was in congress. i authored one of the minimum wage alternatives. >> is there any republican authoring this? >> i don't understand. look, this is one i don't get. if the republicans want to go out and say we're against the minimum wage, then make the argument to the american public who believes we should have a minimum wage. let's not make this argument that we're for the blue collar guy but we're against any minimum wage increase ever. it just makes no sense. >> thank you. wow. >> yeah. >> i agree with rick santorum. >> how does that feel? >> it feels good. >> more hives? >> no. >> rick was on the show last

week, said basically the same thing. we also had the former governor tim pawlenty here. republicans probably want to figure out a way to strike a deal where they can get something in exchange for that that creates jobs. like talking about keystone. democrats need out of the corner on keystone. republicans need out of the corner on minimum wage. and they can find a compromise. they don't want to be this year and two years from now strapped with $7.25 around their neck. they just don't want to b the party of $7 an hour. >> i agree with you completely and they shouldn't be. i'm all for negotiating and cutting a deal, i just don't understand why you would need one on this. it's fine. take it. >> because there are a lot of people who believe when the economy's growing and i'm one of them. at .01% or .1% or whatever it is, it's not moving fast. that you probably don't want to

jump up $3 an hour. that there are a lot of small business owners that will be hurt. there will be a lot of people and we've had this conversation before where you're actually going to be transferring when you make that big of a jump money from one group of four americans to another group of four americans. because some people will, i believe and a lot of people believe, lose their jobs. it doesn't have to be a $3 jump now. you can move it up a little bit, index it to inflation. make sure you don't go as long as we've gone without -- >> without a step up. because then we have a conversation like this but we leave people if you debate this on and on, we leave people getting paid a paltry -- an unlivable amount of money. >> that's also why i keep going back to keystone. because that's about jobs. but democrats are back in the corner because a lot of their big contributors don't want keystone approved. they come up with every stupid excuse. it's an embarrassment. even "the washington post" is talking about how dumb this

delay -- continued delay is. and it's all for a bunch of rich donors and influential people. why can't the democrats get out of the corner on keystone, republicans get out of the corner own minimum wage, come together and figure out a way to make this work. that is a jobs bill. >> and it's all too logical for washington, as you know. that is exactly wla should really happen. we need a minimum wage increase. we haven't had one since 2009. economists will agree with you up to a point that there will be a loss of jobs, but on balance they think the people at that level of income would be better off with a minimum wage increase. on keystone, the fact is the oil is going to be produced anyway. it's a question of whether the oil goes by truck and maybe rail across canada and out to china and other places or whether we transport it across our country and get the jobs associated with it, get the use of the oil associated with it. the oil is going to be produced. people who are against keystone because they think they're going to stop all of the oil are

wrong. >> it's irrational. it is extraordinarily irrational. the question, mark halperin, we get back to minimum wage because there's breaking news on keystone as well. but when we get back to the minimum wage, for me it's so fascinating because blue collar republicans, a lot of them in pennsylvania who voted for rick santorum when he ran for senator the first time, they support the minimum wage increase. if you look at the polls, dig inside most polls, the republican party itself split down the middle on the minimum wage. but it doesn't break the way you would expect. a lot of tea party members supported increase of minimum wage. >> the republican party is laughably without prominent marketable ideas on helping the middle class and the economy. laughable. they're good at opposing the president. but rick santorum and tim pawlenty here the other day, they understand that the party must stand for working class americans. and that's one way to do it.

and even if there's a political cost to them, obviously as you said, there are a lot of people in the republican party who would like to see an increase in the minimum wage. >> steve rattner, when someone lives on the minimum wage if you can call it living is how close to the poverty level is that? >> it depends on the size of your family. but many of those people are under the poverty level. >> we're not talking about middle class here. it's just unbelievable. >> but also, though, a lot of -- >> working poor. >> a lot of people work at walmart file for food stamps. >> but it's not like the overwhelming majority of people are on minimum wage are the primary wage earners for their home either. >> the average wage in america is about $50,000 a year. if you're a minimum wage worker you're making about $20,000 a year. you're not in the middle class. although if you're part of a

family and you're a supplemental wage earner, it's a different thing. >> okay. so now back to keystone. the senate is expected to take an energy efficiency bill today that could include an amendment for the approval of the keystone pipeline. but the white house has already signalled that president obama may veto the bill. calling the potential keystone amendment and other amendments to block climate regulations unacceptable. but now lobbying groups have set their sights on lawmakers still on the fence over the keystone project. the american petroleum institute has launched an ad campaign in five states urging senators there to approve the keystone deal. among the senators being targeted, mark udall who is up for re-election this year. >> washington. its gridlock, division, bitter partisanship. but one job's plan brings both sides together. bill clinton and george bush say

build the keystone xl. warren buffett too. so do 78% of americans and "the wall street journal," "usa today. it makes so much sense, even a divided congress approved it. unions and businesses too. tell senators udall and bennett, approve keystone xl. >> we were talking before saying republicans were laughable without ideas about working class, middle class americans. when it comes to the energy revolution and it's already upon us, democrats are laughably out of touch with most americans. and i know that ad was put up by the american petroleum institute, but they didn't put the words in bill clinton's mouth or the editorial page of "the washington post" or the editorial page of "the usa today." of course "the wall street journal" is always going to support this. but they are so out of step on what is going to be the most significant economic development in this country over the next 20 years. >> i wonder if the president

could go back whether he would have handled this differently. to be called out by "the washington post" editorial board that way -- >> it was harsh. >> and conversations with democrats, even ones lukewarm about the project suggest they see a credibility problem on this which is unnecessary. as steve said, really there's no argument against this on environmental impact given that all this is going to happen anyway. it's just a question of whether the united states is going to benefit from jobs. and the inability of the president to move on this not only in terms of credibility but in terms of being able to say we're part of the energy revolution. this is part of the solution. big mistake. >> but we know what's going on here, right? you've got a huge block of single issue voters in the democratic party who have basically made this a litmus test. >> the poll shows it's not even the voters. it's the donors. >> it's those dreaded brothers. it is the richest of the rich

that are concerned about this, the donor class. >> i want to get to gene. gene, is the white house and are democrats so out of step here and completely disconnected? >> the one thing that's right that's been said there is there's a political calculation, but it's not just rich people who oppose the keystone pipeline. it's environmentalists. it's young people. and that's, i think, the bigger political calculation here. democrats are figuring -- you know, for example, organized labor generally supports the construction of the pipeline. that's a big democratic constituency. they've got to get them out. but i think the calculation has been made that those people are going to come out and vote. that those people, they're organized. they're going to -- they're not going to vote for the republicans. they're going to come out and vote for the democrats. young people on the other hand generally stay home in midterm elections. >> but gene, the polls are showing -- gene, the polls are

showing 78% of americans support this. with all due respect, you sound like somebody on the far right that had their head into background checks. it's bagging you to be rational and reasonable and not an ideologue by big money on the far left. it makes us sad. listen to your editorial page. >> be kwiequiet. >> read our editorial page more often. it does not always treat president obama with kid gloves and opposes him on a number of things. they've been giving him hell about syria, been giving him hell about foreign policy in general. so it's not like it's always just kind of love pats from our editorial board. >> you're right. they only think he's the second best president ever. go ahead. >> but i'm -- look. you know, we always talk about politics here. and if -- if you can get young voters to vote in the fall, you

have a -- if you're a democrat, you have a much better chance of surviving than if you don't. >> are young voters really going to vote? young voters aren't -- >> just want them to sign up for health care. >> do you have any numbers on that? >> no, i don't have -- >> i don't think young voters hate jobs. they probably don't hate jobs. but if you talk about an energy revolution -- >> use the phrase revolution, i'm curious if you think that oil and coal is really the future of a revolution of energy. >> exactly. >> talking about wind, solar, and electric. that's going to get their attention. >> can i answer that question? >> yes. >> can i answer that? yes, it is. over the next 25, 30 years. people will look back 100 years from now and talk about how the united states of america were pushed with their backs against the wall and fighting one war in the middle east after another war in the middle east and they were seeing their economic standing in the world fall, they're going to look back and see what's happened in north

dakota down to texas, west texas, and they're going to say oh, my god. it was an energy revolution that i believe will actually build the bridge using bill clinton's terminology, build the bridge to new energy innovation. where coal and oil and even natural gas are things of the past. >> but should they parallel that now? >> that's what we are. we're not going to run the largest economy in the world over the next 20, 25 years by chasing windmills, swinging at windmills and thinking that that's going to fuel this economy other the next 20, 25 years. and when you talk this way, you talked about young people. steve rattner, i'll talk to you. when you talk this way, the people you lose are the very working class americans that republicans haven't connected with. because this means lower energy costs. this means lower gas prices. this means lower costs for

manufacturing. this means bringing jobs back to america. and democrats just can't be overly ideological on this issue. >> if you go to a place like germany where they've embraced wind, solar, imposed regulatory requirements to make this and use this stuff, people are miserable. they look at us with this envy and say gosh, we wish we could be america with all this shale gas and oil and all this. >> an oil glutton. >> guess what. >> we live in a petroleum-based economy for the foreseeable future and having cheap gas and having access to our own oil is an unbelievable plus. >> but we do. we do. this is all going on and this is going to continue to go on. and in fact, the obama administration has been extremely supportive of the energy revolution happening in this country. the question is whether you take canadian oil and you bring it through our country or they ship

it out to china. i agree that they are going to be developed. i think probably after the election, i would not be surprised if the keystone pipeline would be approved. i'm talking about the political case that i believe democrats are making for not doing it now. and as you see, it's been put off, it's been put off, it's been put off. i think there's a political reason for that. >> of course there's a political reason for that. >> going back to what thomas said, steve, from what the president says, from what he said in the past, i actually agree with him and he actually agrees with me and i'm sure you agree with him and most americans agree with him. i support the all of the above approach. >> of course. >> we need to push forward on alternative energy sources. but we've got an extraordinary opportunity right now for the foreseeable future to actually bring jobs back to america. >> but let's -- but two things on this. let's acknowledge that the

decision not to approve keystone so far is purely political. there's nothing about that pipeline that we have left to know about its environmental impact or about this or that. >> okay. okay. i'll agree. it was all political. okay. >> but the second thing to know about the keystone pipeline is that every day as we sit here, the oil industry is finding other ways to get that oil out. they are building rail lines. they're using trucks. if this goes on long enough, they're going to make the keystone pipeline a lot less relevant and a lot less profitable and a lot fewer jobs if we ultimately decide to build it. >> all right. >> let's give thomas the final word here. >> okay, fine. thomas, what you say? >> final word. >> there you go. >> you know what? thanks a lot, joe. 17 minutes into the show, we have the republican primary in north carolina today. major developments in ukraine. so coming up on "morning joe," she's running for re-election in one of the most closely watched races this year. senator mary landrieu joins us

for an exclusive interview. live in our 8:00 hour, senator john thune. >> he's going to break a chair with his bare hands. >> have a thing or two to say to him. we're also talking to one of the most renowned centerists author christopher buckley. and later the man behind one of the best shows on television. creator and executive producer of hbo's "veep." armando anuchi. and julia louis dreyfus is brilliant. up next, when are politicians most effective and powerful? mark looeibovitz is here on tha. but first here's bill kairns. effective and powerful does not come to mind, but go ahead. >> this guy is throwing fastballs now. what beautiful few days. >> it has been. don't forget because the white house is releasing their climate assessment report during the 8:00 hour too.

i know that's must-have reading for you. >> that's true, actually. he's right. that's important. thank you. >> i'm writing it down. assessment. >> bill, take it away. >> all right. here's what we're dealing with out there today. the rain is moving through areas of washington, d.c., overnight. we got drenched pretty good. we even had thunderstorms. now that is exiting. we'll be left with a nice day. temperatures pretty mild today. we're into finally a beautiful stretch. 60s through new england. 70 in washington, d.c. no travel problems whatsoever in the northeast. the issue we're having is it's a little too warm too soon and it's too dry in the middle of the country. the fires have been a problem in oklahoma. it is 68 to start your morning in dallas. we have red flag warnings up. that means high fire danger. northern texas, western oklahoma, and southwest kansas. and of course we're going to deal with winds gusting up to about 40 miles per hour. temperatures in the 90s in that

region. dallas today near 90 degrees too. kansas city around 88. we don't have a lot of severe weather this week, but come wednesday evening into thursday, the middle of the country will have a storm. not too many tornadoes. more on that in the days ahead. we leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. the rain is clearing out, the sun is trying to come all. everything should be green and lush after last night's rain. more "morning joe" when we come right back. ♪ it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease.

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♪ ♪ ♪ time now to take a look at the morning papers. "the wall street journal," the u.s. department of justice is close to securing a guilty plea and a record settlement with

swiss bank credit suisse. sources say the bank could pay $1.6 billion. credit suisse is accused of helping wealthy americans evade taxes. >> and "the wall street journal," it's called the major decision about the separation of church and state. the supreme court ruled yesterday that prayers before public meetings is constitutional. the case centered around town council meetings in the small town of greece, new york. the majority also said that the founding fathers approved of having a prayer before starting a session of congress. >> from our parade of papers "the boston globe," looking into the high wire accident in rhode island over the weekend. officials believe a clasp found in three separate places is to blame. eight female acrobats and one man on the ground were injured when a metal beam fell more than 30 feet during a performance. four acrobats remain in serious condition. >> and "the usa today" diver

involved in the search for missing passengers in the south korea ferry disaster has died. the diver was unconscious when he was rescued by fellow divers. after losing radio communication. he later died at the hospital. 260 people are dead following the accident last month. and 40 remain missing. rescue workers are going to continue their search today. >> "the oklahoman." hot temperatures are going to continue in oklahoma making it hard to contain the fire. the fire has killed one person, burned more than 3,000 acres, and destroyed several homes. about 1,000 people are returning home. the fire is believed to have started as a controlled burn although local authorities were not notified. and the oregonian" helped save the life of an unconscious woman yesterday. the governor made his driver stop when he saw attempts being

made to resuscitate a woman on the side of the road. he performed cpr until medics arrived. it's not his first time playing hero. he once helped a person having a seizure at a political function and he also chased down an intruder at his office in portland. >> gosh. you take that, cory booker. all right. >> the former e.r. doctor is up for re-election this year. >> vote him in. "the denver post." investigators trying to figure why a small plane crashed into a colorado home yesterday afternoon. people heard a louz buzz and boom. no one was inside at the time of the accident. the pilot survived. >> wait. how did the pilot survive that crash? >> i don't know. >> steve rattner, you're our aviation expert. >> oh, no, please. horrible. >> how did that happen? how do you survive that? >> that's lucky is what that is. we have something special here for you. >> what's that? >> it's a good one. joining us now in washington --

>> i felt like today was special. >> something's different. chief correspondent for "new york times" magazine joins us right now. mark looeibovich. his new piece is in this week's "new york times" magazine. he writes this. it may be difficult to recall such an elevated member of congress explicitly leaving for a media gig -- i remember one -- but congressman mike roger's decision follows a basic logic. successful brand identities in the house and on talk radio have never before relied on such similar skillsets. there has never been so much politics in media and media in politics. it's only natural the melding could become so complete that practitioners would simply jump from one world to another. >> mark, a couple of things. first of all, this guy was the chairman of the intel committee. secondly i went home and was a lawyer. >> right. >> i mean, to jump straight from being an intel chairman to radio

is. >> reporter: -- is it brazen or smart? >> from people that study washington, it's sort of unsettling about just how unimportant washington has gotten to a lot of these. >> it also makes perfect sense. rogers has no problem being heard. he was on more sunday morning shows last year than any other politician anywhere. suddenly decides that, hey, you know, if i'm just going to be talking on television or radio, i might as well get paid a lot more for it. and as bill maher said, no one can see his toupee. that's actually why i usually do radio and not tv because no one can see my toupee. i do think this could signal a wave in the future. you did have a step where you practiced law for awhile. other people, they're forced out, they are voted out. i mean, that's been a model for a lot of people.

mike huckabee went for president and didn't win and went right on to radio and tv. i think you'll see a lot of this going forward. and frankly it makes sense. >> at first when we heard the news, it was like why is he doing that? but then i think of, you know, asking you the question. where would you have more impact on the conversation and be able to generate new ideas and perhaps even help your party on a platform like this or as a member of congress? >> well, mark wrote about it. what did you conclude? >> well, i mean, i concluded that essentially, i mean a lot of it depends on how many people watch your show or listen to your show and how much influence you had in congress to begin with, but certainly the calculation can be very, very lucrative and very, very empowering in some ways. i mean, i think if you are a back bencher and you go on and then suddenly people, you know, people pay attention to you, it obviously makes perfect sense. on the other hand, if mike rogers is never heard from

again, you have to wonder about whether in fact he's helping his career and not just his bank account. >> it's a tough gig. radio is a very tough gig. >> very tough. >> tv, not this because we just sort of blindly wander onto set and talk, but other than this show, tv is very tough. it's tough to draw an audience and everything. but i will tell you, people ask me where i had more influence. in congress of here, it's not even a close call. >> right. and you don't have to raise money. you don't have to travel back to your district. you don't have to -- you know, there's any number of hassles you don't have to deal with when not in elected office. >> if you want get something done in congress, you sit there, draft a bill, go through it, have people chopping away at you and try to get it over to the senate. and of course nothing's happening in the senate now. and then the president will probably veto it at the end of the day. so that's very frustrating. there's no doubt, though, if you see something in the newspapers that upsets you that you want to

draw attention to, you just start driving it. you bring the right people on from congress or the senate and chances are good if it's a good idea, you actually move that along. especially on a show like this. and you make a huge difference. >> how would you categorize his moderate republican, far right, in the middle? >> he's a conservative. you studied him closer than i did, mark. he's conservative but has a moderate temperament. >> i wonder if that stays. >> he's not going to outrush rush and he said that himself. right? >> it's true. one of his colleagues of texas said, you know, he is a democrat. this is a voice for moderation and consensus bill which might as well be a kiss of death on some talk radios. at the end of the day, this is ratings. mike huckabee himself said it. and if it pays him and if it builds ratings to be more extreme, he might make that

calculation himself. >> talking about huckabee, there are very few people -- it's not like mike rogers is the first foreign think about this. there's few people to make the jump from public service to tv or radio. of course you could see when mike huckabee was running for president of the united states that he was this great character and this very likable guy. that's why we had him on the show 247 times during the presidential campaign. because he's great on tv and radio. i'm not so sure there's so many other members that can do what huckabee's been able to do. >> we'll see. mark leibovich, thank you so much. still ahead, a candidate for u.s. senate is kicked out of an editorial board meeting after a heating exchange with a reporter. what the reporter was writing that got him so angry. but first chris paul left no doubt that the clippers have a

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♪

so is the cabs are going to come by. this is a quarterback challenge. this man has done it before. roll 'em. actual new york city cabs. here we go. oh, my god. i was afraid to throw. oh, now he's slowed down. oh. oh! >> all right. so did you see that? good throwing arm. >> that was amazing. >> peyton manning along with david letterman last night. the cabs were part of it. there weren't passengers in the back seat taking a football to the head. >> pulling back the curtain. >> i'm trying to reveal the tv tricks. want to show you what else happened start of round two of the nba playoffs. l.a. with a bit of rest after an emotional seven-game series win. but they carried that momentum

into round two. chris paul made a career high eight three pointers on nine attempts. he helped the clips to a 122-105 victory. to indianapolis where the wizards dominated the pacers. washington's bradley biel led with 25 points scoring 14 in the fourth quarter. wizards win. that's their first second-round win in 32 years. another pair of round two openers. the spurs will host the blazers. we take you to the ice in last night's round two matchups of the stanley cup playoffs. take a look. >> martinez holding. here it comes. they score! he gets to it. lays it ahead. dwight king. empty net goal. 3-1 los angeles. >> long pass to crosby. crosby shoots. he scores!

. shot. did it go in? nope. that did not go in. puck gets past richards. a breakaway for jokinen. he scores. >> penguins and kings both winners last night. another set of round two matchups tonight. the bruins visit the canadiens. and the hawks and wild. and the kings and ducks. >> i can't wait for that. >> set your dvr. still ahead at the top of 7:00, we have mary landrieu. she's going to be here for an exclusive interview. i'm going to ask her how she's going to win by 6 1/2 votes this time. >> that's going to be tough. then the creator of hbo's "veep" joins us. do you love that show? if you haven't seen that show, you seriously need to sit down and binge watch the first entire year. >> but coming up next, what do we have?

>> which one word should be banned until after the midterms? the answer is next in the must read opinion pages. ♪ i missed you, too.ou. hi buddy.

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there was a boy who traveled to a faraway place where villages floated on water

and castles were houses dragons lurked giants stood tall and the good queen showed the boy it could all be real avo: whatever you can imagine, all in one place expedia, find yours ♪ all right. it's time now for the must read opinion pages although i could listen to this song. this is great, gene. eugene robinson writes in "the washington post" time for some happy talk from democrats. i propose that democrats ban the word "but" until after the election. republicans are giving "but" a workout. unemployment may be down to

6.they say, but too many people are leeing the workforce. the jobs numbers look good but we don't know if this rate can be sustained. the gop wants to foster the notion that nothing is going well with democrats in charge of the white house and senate and that it's time for a change. when democrats sound like the old "snl" character debbie downer, they reinforce the republicans message rather than refute it. listen up, democrats. you've fixed the economy. you expanded access to health care. oh, and you ended two wars. show a little happiness. it's contagious. >> gene, tell us about it. >> well, yeah. i think it's a little frustrating not to hear more enthusiasm and frankly a little chest thumping from democrats. you know, 6.3% unemployment. that's a really good number given where we were. 288,000 new jobs. best month we've had had in a

long, long time. stock market is up near record highs. at or near record highs. so there's something in there for the 1% as well. you've got the affordable care act which republicans said was going to be the end of the world. well, it wasn't the end of the world. they said it would never work. it is working. got 8 million signups. this a story that you can tell in a positive tone of voice. and not always, yeah, these things are going well. but we need to keep working on behalf of this and on behalf of that. you've actually heard that from president obama friday. although he -- i give him a pass on that because he came out into the rose garden with angela merkel and clearly they were thinking of ukraine. come on, democrats. just give yourself some credit. >> mark halperin. >> gene, i'm all for happy, but strategists say when they talk

to their constituents, people aren't feeling the improved economy and they risk sounding tone deaf if they go out there saying how great everything is. >> i guess that's a risk, but people aren't go toing feel it if they -- you know -- >> talk them into it. >> at least give them positive vibes. it's what ronald reagan always did. reagan talked to the country at times when people were down and not feeling good about themselves or what was going on. granted he was an exceptional communicator, but he had a way of transmitting an optimism that led to confidence. and to feeling good about him as a candidate. look. that's something we need to do. >> so steve rattner. >> i hate to use the but word, but there's a but word that has to be used here. >> that really doesn't help. >> wages. yes. mark just said the magic word. everything you said is true, gene. but the one thing you didn't say

is for the average american, wages have not gone up after adjusting for inflation for four years. and when you combine that with this much bigger level of income inequality, it means the average american is hurting. and so i think that everything you said is true and i give the president as much credit as you do for a lot of his accomplishments, but not been untide and not through any fault of his own is -- >> there's not a fair shot. >> are you better off than you were four years ago or five and a half years ago at the moment? and it's a hard question for the average american to answer positively. >> yeah. but i think the key thing is do you think things are getting better? do you think things will get better? and do you think you'll be in a better position a year from now than you were a year ago? and i think that is not entirely dependent, but the way you communicate has something to do with that. and if you're --

>> so probably the answer to that question is yes. but anyhow. thanks. coming up, it's one of the nation's most iconic. editor david remnick joins us ahead. but first, the story behind these photos even if there is -- look how cute. >> oh, my lord. >> this is news you can't use. i can't explain it. adorable. >> won't see this anywhere else. >> no, you won't. ♪ mine was earned in korea in 1953. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance

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♪ do you think spice is an ugly dog? >> no. i have a great picture of spice. >> don't show spice. >> that is some serious music. >> that is, man. why aren't we doing the old anchorman thing for news you can't use. >> is spice being put down? >> i hope not. >> what's wrong? did she, like, dig the yard up a little? >> no. got a problem nipping people. tends to bite. >> news you can't use.

the photography awards were announced. big event for photographers. this year had a surprising winner for portraits. a photographer of france had a collection of these little guys at their most moist. she describes her project as images of dogs during their most vulnerable and humiliating moment. that's how i feel when i get out of the shower. >> between beast and wetness. >> yes. you can visit her website for more of her great work. #mostmoist. >> uh-huh. i don't think that's the hash tag. >> it's not. >> oh! look at that one. >> whatever they're getting paid, it's not enough. >> so here is a very interesting exchange from the great state of oregon where the five republican candidates are competing for the chance to challenge jeff merkley for his senate seat. the candidates met seeking the paper's endorsement. >> oh, i love this.

>> great exchange of ideas. >> mark callahan jumped to the defense of one of his competitors. it's like family feud. >> what? i don't get it. >> you want to talk about disrespect? i see what you're writing down there. you just wrote down blah blah blah for everything she said. she is a respectable woman. why are you not respecting her by writing blah blah blah on your note pad? >> mark, we're going to move on. i'm going to ask a question. and if you answer respectfully, we might -- >> you have to give respect in order to get respect. right now on that side of the table you're not giving very much respect to the five of us and our time here. >> do you have anything to gain by doing this? >> i see what your colleague is put here, blah blah blah while she was giving a detailed answer. >> mark, here's my question. climate change. do you believe it's a myth or reality? >> it's a myth. >> it is? >> yes. >> okay. >> where are you on the easter bunny? >> what's that? >> i said where are you on the easter bunny?

>> are these really the questions that i was called here to answer? really? >> representative -- >> i called you out for putting blah blah blah on your note pad and now you're asking me questions like this? really? really? are we talking about this now? >> let's move on. >> how about you ask a serious and respectful question instead of asking a childish question. >> mark, i just asked you if climate change was a myth -- >> and i answered your question. >> i now move on to get the response from someone else. if you're not going to let me, i'm going to you to leave. okay? that's two strikes. >> who do you think you are? >> okay. you may leave now. go ahead. you're done here. this is neither a fair or a balanced meeting. this is a meeting for us -- >> i know. it's a meeting being asked by disrespectful thin skinned liberals like yourself. >> there's the door. >> i've got other things to do with my time. >> he's got a great point. first of all, somebody else is answering a question and they're

writing blah blah blah down? and then they're follow-up is do you believe in the easter bunny? what are they? a bunch of children? >> the only defense from the paper was the candidate on the conference call was not answering the question directly. so he wrote down blah blah blah because it wasn't going to be any type of sensitive information that they were going to use for that endorsement. that was their defense. but it seemed as if things got off the rails quickly. >> i would say if they did that and he confronted them about it, they ought to say that probably wasn't very professional, i apologize so we'll ask you questions. there's a word for the way the reporters acted in that room. and i can't say it on television. that was incredible. talk about disrespectful. >> they were petulant. >> that's not good enough. petulant. >> they're the host. >> although the guy did dodge the easter bunny question, you've got to say. >> i'm embarrassed for us. >> of course we have a lot of children watching.

the correct answer to that is, of course he believes in the easter bunny. >> yeah. why did you even have so ask him? what's wrong with you? >> that's so disrespectful. >> it was a rhetorical question. >> oh, is that it? okay. just trying to get under his skin. coming up in the 7:00 hour, the new yorker's chris remnick joins the table. and we'll speak with mary landrieu. in the 8:00 a.m. hour, john thune. also ahead -- >> hi. oh, what is this? is this butter? >> in the shape of the great state of iowa. >> oh. >> if it melted, would it become texas? >> this is an absolutely stunning butter sculpture. >> thank you. >> so let's tweet a picture of that. lock that caucusgoer down. >> the creator of my favorite show hbo's "veep" will be here to tell us how he came up with the idea for the show. "morning joe" will be right

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♪ now, the other thing i want to tell you about is that, now, you got young winnie. >> yeah. >> i think she is the light of your eyes. >> yeah, she is.

>> she just glows whenever you come close to her. and of course she'd want her daddy to be drinking a drink that he can relish. and something that he can enjoy. now, with the rocks, you drink that thing a little too quick. now, with a frozen margarita. you take your time. you take your time with that. you take a little sip, don't you? >> yeah. >> and when you're done with that, you got more time to spend with your own daughter, don't you? >> i actually do, yeah. i should start drinking more frozen margaritas. >> i'm glad we had this talk. >> that's awesome! we did not plan that, that is awesome! >> how great is bryan cranston who of course is performing in lbj on broadway? >> tony nominated. >> tony nominated. look at that gorgeous shot of new york city as we wake up this morning. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mark halperin, eugene robinson,

steve rattner with us. and now with us mr. remnick. winning four national magazine awards last week. we'll get to your great book in just a moment. can i just say feature writing, essays and criticism, columns and commentary, fiction. you kept coming up on stage. are you tired? >> it was nice to come see you. >> you seem completely uninterested, actually. >> we actually moved a chair just to sit right by the podium because you kept coming up. people said just sit here. >> congratulations. >> i've had the opposite happen. completely strike out with loads of nominations which was less fun. >> it was a good night. also joining us chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. >> good morning. >> have you seen cranston at lbj? >> yes. he's brilliant. portrayal is great. i'm higher on his performance than the play itself. >> i've heard the play itself is

a little scattered and sort of wanders in the second act, but he's good. >> he's worth the price of admission. >> steve, have you seen it? >> no. >> i want to talk to you about barack obama quickly before we get into this. just to get a little perspective because we're always looking at yesterday's news and commenting there. of course you wrote the bridge, the life and rise of barack obama. you've studied him extensively. you wrote a great 1700 word essay on him, interview with him. >> 17,000, but who's counting? >> 17,000 word essay. on the president sort of as a -- just sort of a checkup for somebody that studied him closely. it wasn't a good checkup. maureen wrote this on sunday. 22 and 45 overpower 44. fatigue and obama looks ready to pass the baton early. the clintons look ready to grab it and maureen hopes she does

because that's eight years of great columns for her. and maybe give him whacks over the head with it. i forgot who wrote the editorial i think yesterday it was in "the new york times," actual editorial page that said he was maddeningly bland and his foreign policy is not good enough. dr. brzezinski who has a great amount of respect for him has been critical of him, jane harman, other democrats have. what's going on? where is he? we all here from foreign policy leaders that he seems disinterested, disengaged. >> that i don't see. >> what do you see? >> i do see fatigue. with any presidency after six years, i defy you to name a presidency after six years where everybody's thrilled and titillated by what's going on. on a more serious angle, last year was a disaster. and the worst thing was the rollout of the health care plan. that was and unmitigated self-inflicted shot in the foot. there's just no question about it.

you can't get around it. on foreign policy, i read maureen's column, and there was all that talk about he should be stronger and more exciting and all the rest. and more action filled as if this were a movie. but then the column stops. then what? okay. we're in the crisis in ukraine. what would you propose we do? send troops into ukraine? i'm not quite sure what the next part is. and i don't think excitement is the highest value. the highest value is sensible policy. we have a terrible situation in ukraine that could re-order politics in the entire european continent for years to come. >> tell us about the man, because you've studied the man that's in the oval office right now. >> the personality is one that we're now accustomed to. what was exciting in 2008 and what i wrote about in the bridge was a narrative of the first black president and somebody who

had extraordinary performtive skills as a speaker. everybody here has talked about it for years. but he is not -- there's no question -- the most hot blooded political personality in the world. he's not lyndon johnson. now, if you want to go back to lyndon johnson, do we want that kind of foreign policy? i think the johnson foreign policy is marked tragically by vietnam. the bush policy -- >> you brought up foreign policy twice. it's also domestic policy. >> absolutely. >> republicans are critical, so let's discount that. >> i'm not. >> but i am for the purpose of this argument, let's just talk about the democratic senators that have complained about him for five and a half years. and i know you've heard the critiques as well it's not just foreign policy. he's not engaged with them. >> we've had this conversation before that he's not either embracing or intimidates. that's the political personality he is. the biggest complaint you hear

whether it's from chuck schumer who would appear to be politically close to him in terms of ideology but in terms of personality, they're miles and miles apart. so it's a diffident personality. steve knows it better than anybody. >> and so i agree with the first part of our analysis about playing the hand he's dealt and so on. i think one way to ask yourself the question is not to say let's go back to johnson or let's go back to abraham lincoln. those were different times. one way to ask yourself the question would be to say if bill clinton were in the white house today, would we be sitting here in this sort of gridlocked doldrums, nothing going on? i'm not talking about where we should be invading ukraine. or would bill clinton say i'm going to get something done and whatever it takes. >> and you'd answer it by saying? >> i'd answer it -- i was asking you the question. >> that's as much the rearview mirror as well.

>> it's a hypothetical. >> if i remember six years through the clinton presidency, we were not exactly in heaven either. >> well, we were having a little problem. >> a little problem? we were -- remember, there was somebody almost thrown out of office. >> with the 60% popularity rating. >> the profile that i've published in the new yorker was somebody that eerily, eerily seemed to be claiming himself. it was a sense of not giving up. that was what i published in the new yorker. somebody frustrated and disappointed. and that's what's frustrating to me sometimes about obama is that the world seems to disappoint him. republicans disappoint him assad disappoints him. putin as well. and the fighting spirit sometimes is lacking in the performtive aspects. do i think this will go down as a terrible presidency?

i don't. you do. i don't. i think an enormous amount has been achieved. i do think again at the risk of irritating you. >> that hurts me. why will you assume i'm rooting against the president? >> not rooting against the president, but the republican party, the republican party is a more radical republican party than it was certainly even in bill clinton's time. that's a difference. that's a political difference. it has an effect. >> at the same time the president knew that when he ran or he should have known that when he ran. just like george w. bush should have known that democrats were going to not try to knock his head off on day one. i think the biggest problem with the president is that perhaps because he'd not been in washington long enough, he came to the office and was a bit naive about what lay in front of him. and when he wrings his hands and when people that i like very much and respect around him

wring their hands and act like it is the greatest shock that the other political party is trying to do them in, i sit here and say have you not read 230 years of american history. >> bill clinton had not spent five minutes in washington either. >> bill clinton -- but bill clinton, though, he came from arkansas, though. chuck todd, let me go to you. bill clinton came from arkansas, a conservative state. he was a democrat that had to deal with conservatives and moderates and a few liberals. by the time he got to washington, he had lost an election and got re-elected. and, you know, had to deal with people that didn't think like him. and that's exactly why he knew how to beat our brains in after we won in 1994. because -- >> and bill clinton was so successful.

he got health care done in his first term. bill clinton was so successful. >> thank you. >> i mean, look. this was not -- he -- you know, there was all this hand wringing. bill clinton didn't become this impressive political figure frankly to a lot of folks like you, joe, until he beat impeachment. until you went for the kill and he killed you back. >> i got two guys putting words in my mouth now. i wish you would let me talk more myself. i've got david remnick telling me what i think and him talking about radical republicans. >> it's revisionist history here. >> it's not. >> okay. >> i was saying you could go back and look in realtime whether i'm talking to rush limbaugh or matthews at the same time in 1996 and 1997 talking about how we're getting our brains beat in by this guy because he is so good at what he does. no. we were there when he beat us to the government shutdown.

he beat us time and time again. >> we plan to romanticize -- >> i'm not romanticizing bill clinton. >> all presidents in the rearview mirror. when it comes to reagan's dealing with gorbachev as a tremendous achievement. and i'm probably much quicker to do it now than years ago. >> but i'm not romanticizing. i want to go back to chuck, but make no mistake of it. if you would like, i could talk about bill clinton selling tarms technology to china when all of his top military people were telling him not to. i could talk about the terrible things he did. it does me no good to open up all of the debates from the 1990s. i'm just talking about his political effectiveness and his engagement. he was engaged. we saw that in realtime. and that's why he beat us at our own game. >> there's no doubt he is wired much differently than barack obama when it comes to dealing with congress.

and there's a difference between president obama and he sits there and doesn't understand why everybody isn't as rational as he is. i mean, that is sort of the way he looks at things. some people want to say he's very clinical about it or cold. but it is more of a sober thing. he doesn't understand why just a rational conversation with somebody doesn't end in getting your 50/50 split or something. it's not just a love for politics, but sort of an understanding of how to use political tools. to get things done even if it means selling your own soul a little bit. and i don't want to say he's sold his soul. >> you can say that. >> he's uncomfortable -- he would be uncomfortable doing something like triangulating.

he doesn't like doing that. and if he starts down the road doing it, he's so transparent he's doing it that it's ineffective. >> gene, would you agree with this? because a lot of people would say that maybe things are different in this presidency and the opposition is more strident. that's there's racial overtones, there's lots of things you've never seen before. is that a realistic reaction to defense for president obama and these descriptions? >> it's true there are many different circumstances. i agree with virtually none of what's been said. i thought david's long profile of clinton -- of obama was fa fabulous piece. but i see a more confident, less needy person than is being described around the table. and i see a president who actually is quite pleased with what he's been able to

accomplish. and believes that he is accomplishing more and will accomplish more in the rest of his time in office. and is not starry eyed or unrealistic about what he can or cannot get through the republican congress. i don't see this sort of, you know, sort of figure trying to figure out what to do. i think he knows exactly what he wants to do. >> i think you may be alone in that sentiment around this table. i see a man, mark halperin, who thinks he's right and everybody else is wrong and has grown up in an isolated environment politically. where he spent most of his life around people who think like him, who, again, unlike bill clinton in arkansas, unlike ronald reagan in california, even unlike george w. bush at times in texas where has he actually dealt with a democratic lieutenant governor. that's my biggest takeaway.

and somebody very close to him who worked with him from the very beginning said the greatest frustration was most politicians worked with him saying that's my position, that's their position let's come together. and said for the first four years he would say this is my position. now let's pull everybody to me. >> tons of accomplishments mostly in a partisan way in the first term. i don't understand what his theory of the case is about how to get anything done in the balance of this term. do you? do you understand? what is he hoping happens? he's not done much since he got re-elected. and i don't see a theory of how you go into the midterms and out of the midterms regardless of the result. >> i agree with that. i think about a president who had a stymied year in '13 and the way forward is very dark for him. and it was almost kind of a sunset quality to the way he was talking about what was left of him. maureen dowd wrote in her column and critically about this notion

of people handing off batons. by the way, it was the same metaphor used by hillary clinton who for all we know at this table is about to be the next president of the united states. there is a sense with obama being very, not obsessed with, but concerned with maybe even obsessed with the limits of the presidency as he sees it. >> well, look -- >> and well it should be. >> they don't know how to run congress. they don't know how to deal with congress. >> what's that? >> they have no clue on how to deal with congress. i've talked to folks in there and they don't know. they can't envision -- i mean, mark is right. i think they have a theory of a case, they just don't know how to implement it. they don't know how to put it through. they have no idea how they're going to get anything done in congress other than their whole theory this year is, well, if democrats hold the senate, maybe there's a whole bunch of stuff we can jam in the lame duck. and there is a six-week period they'll get immigration, all

these things. that's about all the. that seems to be the totality of their legislative strategy because they don't know how to work with congress. >> let's be just slightly fair to president obama having made some slightly unfavorable comparisons to other presidents. but let's be a little fair to him and recognize that he is facing a congress that is extremely difficult to work with where you can't unlike president clinton bring in the speaker of the house and say what do you want? here's what i want. let's get a deal done. you can't deliver that. >> agree 100%. >> so you have to give obama credit for being stuck in this really terrible situation. >> would anybody when you were serving have said anything of the things? the answer is no. >> i could not disagree with what steve, you say in this point and what the conventional wisdom has been. bill clinton was accused of

murder by a top conservative voice in america. the clinton chronicles. we savaged him from the day he came into office. and i guarantee when bill clinton sits back and hears how reasonable newt gingrich and joe scarborough and the 74 freshmen that came in to delegitimatize his very existence, he's getting a big laugh this morning if he's even awake. >> and attacked his wife. >> and attacked his wife and family. do you know why we worked with him? because he gave us -- no. because he gave us no choice. because we learned when we didn't work with him, he beat our brains in. we lost seats in '96. and when everybody said we were going to lose big in '98, we lost big in '98. newt gingrich was run out of town in the middle of impeachment. and bill clinton stayed engaged.

and he wasn't mournful -- there are consequences to disengagement. barack obama is facing those consequences now. bill clinton never did. we dealt with bill clinton because i'll give you the last word. we have no other choice. because he killed us when we didn't. >> well, there's no question that through impeachment that the congress, i think, shamed itself historically shamed itself. i don't know if you agree with that. this congress has not gone so far. but the resistance to legislative initiative and initiative from the white house this time around seems no less ferocious. and i think the notion that somehow barack obama is disengaged and sitting in the oval office playing paddle ball

or cruising the internet is not accurate. >> i was reflecting what you said about him before talking about the senset years. >> i think he's deeply frustrated. >> i don't think you're giving yourself enough credit, joe, and your colleagues who did sh. >> republicans shamed ourselves in the '90s. we were not alone. >> are you saying the only reason you worked with the other side is because they would have beaten your brains? come on. you're better than that and you know that. you all were there to actually get something done. >> yes. to get done what we wanted to get done because -- >> right. and how do you get what you want done done? work with the other side. >> we thought everybody else was wrong. and bill clinton taught us that it wasn't that way. that we had to deal with him. we didn't want to deal with him. he made us deal with him. and he made us look like fools time and time again. >> joe, even on health care, if you look at health care let's go all the way back to health care. the health care plan we ended up and the one that barack obama

supported was not single payer. this was not, you know, democratic party dogma from the left. and if i look back at barack obama historically that he was pro-single payer health care. so the notion that there was no give in the position in the democratic party position on barack obama, that doesn't seem accurate. >> there was debate inside the democratic party. i don't want to re-debate health care. >> come on. let's. let's do a full hour on it. >> we should have gotten out eight minutes ago. people would rather listen to mary landrieu speak than listen to us re-debate this. >> we look forward to your column. >> can we keep chuck for mary's segment. can you stick around? >> all right. you got it. >> thanks. >> we still will be watching "the daily rundown." >> he sounds excited about sticking around. >> he wanted to go get his coffee and doughnut. >> i bet. >> as john boehner prepares his

latest benghazi investigation, the white house says he may not cooperate with that situation. the major battle that could lead to ahead with senator john thune. also author christopher buckley who's out with his first book of essays in over 15 years. up next, senator mary landrieu could hold the entire balance of senate in her hands. she joins us for an exclusive interview next on "morning joe." ♪ scott: appears buster's been busy.

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♪ washington. it's gridlock, division, bitter partisanship. but one jobs plan brings both sides together. bill clinton and george bush both say build the keystone xl. warren buffett too. and 78% of american, "the wall street journal," "washington post." even congress approved it. unions and businesses too.

tell senators udall and bennett, approve keystone xl. >> let's bring in from capitol hill democratic senator from louisiana and chairwoman of the energy and natural resources committee, senator mary landrieu. senator, as you may know i have been predicting that you will do what you always do and win this year by 6 1/2 votes. we always stay up all night and say this is the year we get mary. and then she wins by 6 1/2 votes. i just don't know how you do it. but "the washington post" saying you only have a 28% chance of winning. and i'm just wondering where do we go? can we bet on this somewhere? because i like your odds. i know how this story ends. talk about your campaign. what's going on? how's it going? >> i'm not going to tell me my secrets, but i am going to win. and it's because i work hard for the people of my state and really keep their interests in mind. we've got a lot of middle class folks that really kind of don't understand what's happening in

washington. but they just want jobs and opportunity and good education. and i guess i've been pretty good over time by just staying focused on them. so don't count me out. because that's what i'm going to do in this race as well. >> let's talk about keystone. obviously a critical issue. we've been talking about it around the table. and we can't really figure out why the president like "the washington post" why the president doesn't go ahead and just let this thing get through. what's going to happen? is the keystone pipeline, is the bill going to pass? >> joe, i hope so. i've been working over a year with senator hoeven with democrats and republicans. we have more republicans than democrats, but a good number of democrats. 11 to 15. and 15 is the magic number to get to 60 to send it to the president to get the pipeline built. i think it should have been built a year ago. one of the things i want to do is chair the energy committee is

make sure we're meeting the environmental rules and regs. that we're not trampling over the states in laying these pipelines but that we do it in a more expeditious manner. but the important thing to know is as we focus on keystone, we've already built 2.9 million lines miles of pipe in this country. we have to make more. i want america to be energy dependent and we can. it's the first time in our lifetime even the industry -- this has been been taken by surprise. and to do it with canada and mexico so north america becomes a powerhouse is what i'm fighting for. >> we've got a lot of people that want to talk to you. we're going with a lightning round. >> your disciplinary daunts me but i'm going to try.

around this table this white house opposition to keystone so far is based on political catering to wealthy donors who don't want it built. do you agree with that premise? >> you know, i'm not sure. there's so many theories about the president. i listened to you all about an hour for this and that. and really, i guess that's for you all to talk about and historians to write. i can just tell you that the people that i represent and the members of congress that i talk to every day don't spend a lot of time talking about that. we really do spend time talking about how to create jobs, how to come together, how to work for the people of our country. and there's strong disagreements about this pipeline. i'm telling you it's been one of a ferocious fights. >> do you believe it's the president stopping keystone? >> well, honestly, i think he has serious questions about how much it would contribute to, you know, to the deteriorating climate situation. but as you look at the facts and

you all know them as well as i do, it's a rounding era. it's less than a third of 1% of carbon to the atmosphere. what you would appreciate is the industry which gets beaten up in washington sometimes by both sides has been doing a really good job on efficiency and reducing our carbon output. and i think what americans -- when americans look at what's happening in russia right now and the ukraine, i think it sends shivers up their spine and it should. >> let's go to chuck todd. >> because europe is timid and can't get its energy muscle going. >> got you. chuck todd? >> senator, you've got to win the votes of a lot of people that voted for mitt romney over barack obama in your state in 2012. what do you say to one of those voters who say, you know what? i like you but i want the republicans in charge of the senate. why should they risk keeping the democrats -- this republican voter who voted romney that likes you, why should they risk voting for you if it means

potentially a democratic senate? what do you say to them? >> well, first of all, i think we need senators that will find a common ground and compromise. i'm one of the few that's left. so getting rid of me and a few other people would not be good for the country and its future, in my view. secondly, i've worked with six governors and three presidents. i've worked with republicans and democrats. and i've been consistently able spite the gridlock to make things work for louisiana. so, i mean, when people are looking -- which they are desperately searching for ways congress to work together, getting rid of people like me would not be a good thing. and so that's what i tell people. and they understand that. and people in louisiana are quite practical. and hopefully i'll get back here and continue to be able to do that. >> all right, senator. thank you so much for being with us. we sure enjoyed it. hope you'll come back soon. >> i will.

thank you. >> all right. talk to you soon. so we've got "hardball's" chris matthews at the top of the 8:00 hour. we're also going to hear republicans case for keystone. but coming up next, david remnick is going to take us through the stories of the 1940s, an extraordinary decade, through the eyes of an extraordinary magazine the new yorker. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ vo: once upon a time there was a boy who traveled to a faraway place where villages floated on water and castles were houses dragons lurked giants stood tall

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♪ we're back with the editor of the new yorker david remnick who's here with an anthology of new yorker articles, stories, and poems called "the '40s: the story of a decade." david writes this in part, this anthology represents the new yorker's great turn. its journalistic, artistic, and political way wakening. compared with what was in most other magazines and daily newspapers.

how did it compare? and what was so different, david? >> the new yorker started in 1925. it was kind of a fizzy metropolitan pre-depression magazine. and it was considered what was the editor called a comic weekly. the war changed everything. of course it changed everything for this country, but the magazine became more serious. so the humor was side by side with something as revolutionary as the piece on hiroshima, or the coverage of the war. which combined, you know, really hard nosed reporting but with literary technique. and this was something you were not seeing at that time. if you were to read "the new york times" in those days, it was like a series of telegraph dispatches. very, very, very dry. the opposite of literary. and the new yorker filled and invented that kind of journalism. >> with america that started --

ended the decade in an extraordinarily different way than it began. >> new yorker was not great on the depression. >> did you guys support it? >> yeah, we were pro-depression. that's right. >> saw both sides, exactly. >> just didn't know how to grapple with that. it was kind of a light, humorous m magazine. then suddenly it matured. and even, say, on race you had rebecca west covering a lynching trial. it revolutionized american journalism. >> roosevelt and walt disney. >> yeah. tried to cover the culture as well as the politics. in the same way that today we cover the -- somebody in hip hop or in theater. but that trail was blazed by the new yorker editor harold ross in the '30s but really into the '40s. >> we talk about how tumultuous

the '60s were. but the '40s it moved at a faster pace. >> we're planning one for the '60s in the next couple years. >> david, thank you. "the '40s: the story of a decade." still ahead, today is primary day in north carolina. a state where 90% of all ads come from outside money. kasie hunt has her suitcase and she brings us her investigation. that's coming up. and then it may just be the best comedy on television. we'll talk to the man behind hbo's "veep." >> ma'am? >> yeah, it's me. no, no. don't look at me, please. thank you. what time is the unofficial lunch that i am not having today? >> yeah. it is not officially at is 12:45. >> thank you for not letting me know about anything at all. thank you. ♪

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anything i can help you with? >> yeah, can you show us examples of work you've done? >> sure. >> great. >> here. this one i did for hillary clinton. that's rush limbaugh's. and, well, that's one i did for jeb bush. and, let's see. well, that's ted cruz right there. and, well, this is rand paul. >> oh. >> figures. >> that was vice president joe biden along with julia louis-dreyfus as selena meyer in a scene shot for the white house correspondents dinner on saturday. joining us now the creator and executive producer of "veep" armando iannucci. i love your show. how did you come up with the idea?

>> well, i did a politics show in the uk called "the thick of it" set in an obscure ministry where a politician has no power. and i then turned that into a film which involved them coming to america and got sucked into a war in the middle east that no one knew the reasons for. and on the back of that, hbo said do you want to do something set in d.c.? we've been trying to do something set in d.c. for awhile and you might have an approach we like. >> it's fantastic. how did julia louis-dreyfus become the character? how was she chosen because she's perfect. >> we thought what character in politics would give us the most -- the highest number of comic options. we went for the vice president because you can be so powerful in the senate and then you end up with no power but so close to power. we didn't want anyone to think this is about joe biden or al

gore or dick cheney. we thought we have to have the funniest comedy actress in america. so we went straight to julia. >> she's perfect. >> we got to hang out with some of he cast members over the weekend. it's not phony. they seem to like each other. she said people don't fight for air time. >> it's an ensemble piece. they were all chosen for their ability to kind of ad-lib. when i'm casting, i get into the script can and ask them to put it to one side and stay in character and fire questions at them. but the other thing is, it has to work like that because, you know, in politics it's a bonker atmosphere. so you have to get along with the people you're locked in the room with. >> it was great. over the weekend as mark points out for the white house correspondents weekend, this group travel in a pack. and they were a big hit everywhere they went. and they do have this electric chemistry as just themselves.

>> i think it was fear that kept them together. >> oh, no. >> whatever it did, they did great. how much is written and how much is ad-libbed? because they have this great chemistry. >> we also have terrific writers. we spend a lot of time on the story. about 90% is script. but it's that thing of saying i want it to feel like we're genuinely eavesdropping on these people. carry on talking after the line. they're also radiomicced. even if they're around the corner, we get them. so they're never off. >> any difference writing for a british audience versus an american audience? the humor's a little different. >> a little, but i think we get -- it's so easy to get programs from anywhere in the world now. i think that's getting more blurred. and the cast are very good at taking out the englishisms that we put in. if we put in rather or -- in fact, we've got it to shorthand. julia will say this sounds british. she says this sounds rather --

and if instead of saying you want it more american. we say oh, so you would like it more -- we get that shorthand on set. >> you must be having so much fun. >> it's great fun. >> you can tell. you can catch "veep" on sunday nights at 10:30 p.m. on hbo. fabulous. armando iannucci. i hope i said that right. thank you so much. up next, how effective are sanctions against vladimir putin? we have a detailed look at the russian economy next. and at the top of the hour, chris matthews joins us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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ukraine is stepping up its offensive to try and stop russia's advances in the country as an elite unit tries to push back against separatists. the u.s. and europe are poised to issue more sanctions against moscow. steve ratner has a look at how those economic punishments are playing out so far. steve. >> how's it looking? >> stock market, start with that. >> what's the market look like, what's the russian economy look like after sanctions? >> so you have to look at it in a slightly broader picture

because the russian economy was actually deteriorating long before the sanctions came in place. one of the ways to evaluate that is to take a look at the russian stock market and you can see for the first part of this year, it was sort of toddling along and then it essentially literally fell off a cliff. this was at the time of the heightened tensions with the ukraine. ultimately the annexation of crimea. the fact is that the sanctions themselves came in a bit later, and since the sanctions came in, the russian stock market actually went up a little bit and now with increasing violence it went down a little bit. so if you're one of those ones who say the sanctions haven't had much of an effect, this is the chart you can like. but on the other hand the russian economy is seriously hurting. if you take a look at the next chart you can see what's happened since the beginning of 2013, people thought the economy -- economists thought the economy would go 3.5% a year. now it's down to 1% a year.

the imf has a forecast saying the russian economy will be at 0 this year or even potentially in recession. meanwhile inflation has been edging up at the same time. >> so let me ask you this about the economy. a lot of people have been saying russia is nothing more than a glorified gas station. what's the truth? how diversified is the russian economy? >> you gave me a perfect segue into my third and last chart, joe, which is headline, a country or a gas station? >> oh! >> so if we take a look -- >> you're always one step ahead. >> you can see that oil and gas for russia is 70% of its exports. >> oh, my gosh. >> it's 50% of all the government -- of all the federal government revenue, so imagine our federal government being run on 50% oil and gas revenue. it is 30% of gdp. so it is in fact a country that's hugely dependent on natural resources and that's one of the problems. >> by the way, if gas prices collapse, if oil prices -- if oil prices collapse, the economy collapses. >> this is one of the reasons why the russian economy has been a little bit weak because gas

prices and oil prices have been a little softer than people thought. but the key point here is that when you get to sanctions, the only kind of -- the sanctions that would have the biggest bite on russia would be energy sanctions because so much of their economy is energy. but remember that europe imports 30% of its gas from russia. the world depends on russian oil. if we lost russian oil, oil prices would go up a lot. there's an element of assured mutual destruction here but what you've got is an economy very heavily oriented toward oil and gas and that's where the money is in russia. >> all right. >> all right. >> now, at the top at 8:00 we're going to continue the conversation with chris matthews on the ukraine, on keystone, a lot of things. >> there's also this coming up at the top of the hour. she has our early favorite best political ad of 2014 and now joanie ernst is taking on obamacare. >> joanie ernst will take aim at

wasteful spending. once she sets her sights on obamacare, joanie is going to unload. >> okay. >> from castrating pigs to guns. >> chris matthews is here. that's going to be great, in just a few minutes. also john thune joins us exclusively. >> also "morning joe" gets to go to the met gala. actually lewis did. he brings us his report. we're back in just a moment. honestly, the off-season isn't really off for me. i've got a lot to do. that's why i got my surface. it's great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with.

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she's not your typical candidate. conservative joni ernst, mom, farm girl, and a lieutenant colonel who carries more than just lipstick in her purse. joni ernst will take aim at wasteful spending, and once she sets her sights on obamacare, joni is going to unload. oh, and one more thing, joni doesn't miss much. >> give me a shot, i'm joni ernst, and i approve this message. >> all righty then. welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. mark halperin is still with us and joining the table, the president and ceo of the aspen institute, walter isaacson.

i'm here, walter. you complained. >> i came last week and all i got was joe. >> sloppy seconds, that's horrible. >> and pulitzer prize-winning history i can't be john meacham. and from washington, the host of msnbc's "hardball," i seriously love that show. >> he's amazing. >> chris matthews joins us. >> thanks. >> that was -- >> i'm overwhelmed by you. >> how are you doing this morning, chris? >> i'm doing fine. >> you're overwhelmed by us? so chris spoke at -- was it ohio state, the graduation there? i heard it went really well. we have some great pictures there. you look wondersful. >> 60,000 people, guys. 60,000 people looking back at you. knowing you're on tv. we keep saying to ourself there's stadiums of people watching us but when you see them looking at you and hanging on your words, you know, you have to start out there by yelling oh, you've got to get it

going. i wasn't political at all. i talked about what you have to do to get ahead. you guys know a lot of what i would say which is show up, show up. that's 80%, 90% of life is just showing up for the job interview, don't e-mail it in. get there for the weddings, get there for the reunions. be there as a parent. showing up is get dressed, shave, show up. don't go back to bed and don't think you're gaining anything in your comfort zone. nobody is coming to your house looking for you. >> that is such a great point. can you write that down? 6:00 a.m. we're on the air. >> you guys have to do it very early, but it is the truth of life, i think, about success. >> not 6:01, not 6:02, 6:00 eastern. all right, chris. >> i used the example of ronald reagan who went out to hollywood covering the chicago cubs for his iowa radio station and managed to get himself a screen test. if he hadn't managed to figure that one out and show up is what you have to do. when he got beaten by gechrry fd

of michigan, he shows up at the republican platform at the convention and gives the speech of his life and he's the nominee. bill clinton kept coming back. name a governor in history that was ever beaten for re-election and came back. bill clinton because he went back and campaigned the next day. >> that's true. i'm going to show up right now and do the news. the president's minimum wage plan is deeply unpopular for many congressional republicans but yesterday one conservative leader said he is stunned by his party's take on the issue. >> look, i voted for them when i was in congress. i authored one of the minimum wage alternatives. >> is there any republican authoring that? >> i don't understand -- look, this is one i don't get. if the republicans want to go out and say we're against the minimum wage, then go make to the american public and 80% of the american public who believes we should have a minimum wage. let's not make an argument that we're for the blue collar guy but against any minimum wage

increase ever. >> he's talking like a pennsylvania guy. when he first got elected, he got elect in a democratic district. the guys actually knows working class guys. you certainly know it. your brother certainly knows it. talk about this issue, how republicans may get out of the corner with people like santorum and also last week former minnesota governor tim pawlenty saying let's not be the party of $7.25 an hour. >> well, joe, i'm not sure it's a voting issue. i'm not sure this is going to get people to the polls but it is an issue that does resound with the american people. part of it is self-interest as always because people aren't paying the minimum wage, they're trying to earn it. how much employers are there in the voting population? but the employees like it because every time you move up minimum wage, especially if you move it to $10.10, you're pushing everybody up in the middle level. people working restaurants, or working anywhere. restaurant people really get screwed on that minimum wage but it pushes everybody up. it just seems so american to root for the guy and woman on the bottom. it seems that's what we should

be doing. >> how is this a challenge not to know, though? >> especially now with the economy coming back, it is really hard, as they said, to be the party of a working man or woman and say let's just keep the minimum wage where it is. >> it's okay to get paid that amount. >> exactly, exactly. and the whole notion that we see of income inequality, of opportunity inequality being a rising issue, you don't want to be on the wrong side of what is a big, historical trend about to hit. if the republicans cast themselves as always being on the wrong side of the trend, i think there's going to be a problem. >> john meacham, interesting cross currents in the republican party. a lot of people who aren't republicans trying to tell you what's happening in the republican party. there are a lot of blue collar people in the republican party. you look at the polls and it's kind of split down the middle. college graduates in the republican party for the most part don't support a rise in the minimum wage. but high school graduates do. >> right. it's very hard to say you're

against a fair rising minimum wage. it's easier to talk about obamacare. it's easier to talk about health care because that's a big government program. it conjures up bureaucrats. everybody gets their paycheck. everybody knows what a fair wage would be. and it's just not a sentence you want to speak if you're republican or -- for the three blue dog democrats left saying you're against a rise in the minimum wage because it just puts you on the opposite side of the working people by definition. working people. >> you know, mika, there is a compromise, i really believe there's a compromise to be made. it might come in a bill that's being debated today in the senate. >> yep, the senate is expected to take up an energy efficiency bill today that could include an amendment for the approval of the keystone pipeline, but the white house has already signalled that president obama may veto the bill. calling the keystone agreement and other amendments to block climate regulations unacceptable. now lobbying groups have set

their sight on lawmakers still on the fence over the keystone project. the american petroleum institute has launched an ad campaign in five states urging senators there to approve the keystone deal. among the senators being targeted, vulnerable democrat mark udall of colorado who is up for re-election this year. >> washington, it's gridlock, division, bitter partisanship. but one jobs plan brings both sides together. bill clinton and george bush both say build the keystone xl, warren buffett too. so do 78% of americans and "the wall street journal," "the washington post" and "usa today." it makes so much sense even a divided congress approved it, union and business too. tell senators udall and bennett, approve keystone xl. >> so here we've taken two issues in the first seven, eight minutes of the 8:00 hour where most american support, raising the minimum wage, republicans

are against it, most americans support the keystone pipeline, most democrats are against it and most americans don't understand why either party is entrenched on both of these issues. isn't there a compromise here on both issues? >> yeah, i think you're -- look, i'm always for compromises and i think it's a fair estimate to say that bill clinton would have been if he were president for it. it's the kind of compromise he would be for, like welfare reform. it's good politics, it's not evil. it's something that's a marginal thing and he would have gone with probably the popular view, which is build the darn thing. i also got back from china, joe and mika, talk about a revelation. one minute when you see 50 cities as big as philadelphia, when you see trains you can get on where they put the coca-cola or diet coke on your table and trains going 200 to 300 miles an hour and it never moves, i mean they are so far ahead of us in technology and build. their construction rate, they buy -- in four years they built a city like new york. it actually looks as beautiful as chicago in many ways in terms of architecture.

we have got to get back to building again, not just a pipeline but buildings and highways and fast rail. i'd like to see the two parties make a really big compromise, maybe with republican efficiency and democrat idealism combined for once and build back america. we are really, really slumping right now. >> we do have to rebuild america. you go overseas and you come back home, you fly into jfk, then you try to drive out of jfk, you try to get back into the city, it's an absolute nightmare. we're the ones that look like a third world country. there are compromises tor made on keystone, on the minimum wage, on getting americans back to work. we've got a great opportunity over the next ten years with the energy revolution to rebuild this country. >> especially on keystone. looking at steve ratner's charts, when you look at what's happening in ukraine and you realize the dependence of europe on russian oil and gas, and especially ukraine's dependence on gas, over the next five to ten years if we're going to

change the correlation of forces on the ground and be able to stand up to russian aggression wherever it is, we're going to have to become a major energy exporter and we should just go all out for it. so i thought keystone was a good idea before it was necessarily as good strategic idea vis-a-vis the russians, but right now it should be the excuse we all use to say let's start exporting liquefied natural gas, let's build keystone and let's start getting more energy. >> and you know, mark, i've been pulling my hair out over the past decade when republicans on certain issues seem to be on the wrong side of history. i think they're correcting. you look, though, at the technological explosion in the energy field, people like harold hamm who have completely rewritten the rules of how you get the resources. suddenly we have the opportunity to do two things at once. restart our manufacturing base here. and that is going to happen. people keep saying -- it's going to happen over the next decade because of lower energy prices, because of technology, because

people are realizing like jeff emmel, he had outsourcing is not what it promised to be. but when you have a nemesis in russia whose economy depends on oil and gas, we can beat them with technology. not nuclear weapons anymore, technology that not only hurts them and hurts their economy, but actually puts americans back to work. >> to get a big energy bill requires democrats accept it in the short-term fossil fuel part of our energy strategy and requires republicans to not deny that we need to deal with climate change. that's going to take a president who's strong and willing to deal, and this president is right now not in either of those places. >> willing to compromise. >> what chris said a second ago really well, what it's going to require is it's almost a reaganesque peace through strength but it's a strength through strength. it's going to require public investment both on energy and the compromise there and on the willingness of republicans to

approve a public investment in infrastructure because we're now locked in this 19th century, 18th century both mercantile and great power war struggle. >> chris, i've given hundreds of speeches over the past four or five years with mika, and we've said the same thing to democratic groups that we've said to republican groups, the same thing to democrats as we've said to republicans and we do talk about -- i talk about, of course, my concern about big government but i say there are things that government needs to do, and i talk about infrastructure investment. what eisenhower did creating a new generation of scientists and mathematicians and engineers that allowed kennedy to say four years later we're going to walk on the moon by the end of the decade and in '69 when that happened on that july night you had 28-year-olds at mission control who became engineers who created the internet, who transformed this society.

republicans understand that outside of the think tanks in washington, d.c., most americans believe. we've got to keep our bridges from falling down. if the chinese can go -- have trains that move you around 300 miles an hour, we probably should start like planning for the 21st century in these areas. >> you know, i think that eisenhower in the '50s were always underplayed. hollywood puts down the '50s. but eisenhower had won the war in europe, accepted the nazi surrender. when he came in and supported the highway system and the national defense education act, which is the reason i got through college and a lot of us did, it was because of sputnik. we said we're losing the war of technology to the russians. i think perhaps when china passes us in gdp, whenever that happens, it may have already happened in certain counts, we're going to wake up and say we are not doing what we as american to do. and the tragedy today, joe, is it's politics. the people that want to go out and spend the money are the

democrats but the public doesn't trust the democrats to spend money because they blow it away, they pee it away in many cases, look at the stimulus package. republicans are trusted more in efficiency but they don't want to do it. so you have the people who want to do it who aren't trusted and the people who are trusted don't want to do it. we have got to get together on efficiency and ambition for our country. joe, i think you're at the center on this and that's -- the things you talk about are so right. get it together and they have got to stop running against each other and for at least a couple months a year figure out how they can serve the country. at least a couple months of i'd like to see maybe after this election, maybe in june they say oh, we're going to do immigration reform in those magic little two weeks in june. it's really pathetic. it's really pathetic. >> i think the president really wanted to have the final two and a half years, you could figure out a whole lot we could do together as a country and it would be insane to go against it. just like eisenhower did, with not only the interstate highway

and the space shuttles but things like the internet. that type of national commitment is crying out to be made. national service is a commitment crying out to be made. energy. you know, it just seems to me that an infrastructure bill, energy, all those sort of things, we could say, okay, for the next couple years we're going to put aside politics and get these done. >> and we talked about eisenhower. eisenhower was a conservative. he was a conservative with a small c and big c. when it came to economics, he didn't trust the government, he didn't trust bureaucrats, but he understood about investment that made america safer and stronger. >> he confronted the world as it was, not as he wanted it to be. when he came in and people wanted him to repeal the new deal, he said anyone who takes on social security at this point would be mad. and so he dealt with the world as he found it and made it better. >> chris matthews, thank you. we'll be watching "hardball" 7:00 eastern time. walter and john, stay with us if you can.

>> dr. math. >> it's now a well deserved degree. coming up, senator john thune standing by. doesn't he look presidential? >> he does. listen to the music. hold on. >> perfect. >> run, johnny, run. >> is that the keystone pipeline in the background? >> i can't tell if that's the open of an hbo show or senator john thune. >> breaks those columns with his barry hands. >> angry inside. >> and manly. >> anyhow, chris buckley is here with his new collection of essays, the first in over 15 years. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. passenger: road trip buddy. let's put some music on. woman: welcome to learning spanish in the car. passenger: you've got to be kidding me. driver: this is good. woman: vamanos. driver & passenger: vamanos. woman: gracias.

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i want america to be energy independent, and we can. i mean it's really the first time in our lifetime, the first time even the industry has taken -- this has been taken by surprise. and to do it with canada and mexico so north america becomes an energy powerhouse is what i'm fighting for. >> okay, that was senator mary landrieu this morning on "morning joe" explaining why she is one of several democrats supporting the keystone pipeline. squlo joining us now from capitol hill, republican senator john thune of south dakota. i guess given where you're from we should start with keystone. but first, it kind of looked good when we played the music, i have to say. do you, sir, have presidential ambitions? >> not at the moment, mika. right now we're working on

trying to get the majority for the republicans in the senate in november. >> not at the moment. >> i've got to quickly say al gore sr. used to say there's not a united states senator who's ever drawn breath that has not seen a future president looking back in the mirror when he shaves. >> and john mccain says the only thing that cures that is 'em -- embalming fluid. >> he did say not at the moment. >> there's no presidential campaign at the moment. >> if there was a campaign at this moment, sir, would you be in it? >> well, there is a campaign, but it's for the midterm elections and to try to win the majority in the senate, so that's the focus right now and then we'll worry about '16 after that. >> all right. let's talk keystone. there is a deal that can be made? by the way, we've been talking here on the set -- >> we've made the deal. >> we've done it. minimum wage increase over the

years, keystone goes through. what do you think? >> well, i think you guys -- i've been listening to the discussion this morning and you've got a good little interaction going there. a few in the congress might have this -- if you were in congress, you might have this all resolved right now. i think the problem we have with the minimum wage is everybody says it's going to cost jobs. to me the best way into the middle class is a good-paying job. the minimum wage, if it's raised, they say, will cost up to a million jobs and raise prices for everybody in the economy, particularly goes people in low income categories. of the job losses that would occur by 2016 if the minimum wage was increased, 57% of those would be lost by women. and so you've got people who are going to be disproportionately impacted by that. on the other hand, the keystone pipeline creates jobs, and we know that that would have shovel ready jobs associated with it. you heard senator landrieu this morning talking about the energy independence issue which i think is really important. i think the american people get that. >> senator, you know, i beg to differ with the math that you're doing about a potential minimum

wage increase because also the argument is that people will be paid more, there will be more money turned back into the economy. i mean just -- can we ask you in this way, do you really think people should be paid the current minimum wage? >> well, i don't think anybody ought to be paid the minimum wage, mika. i'd like to see everybody paid a lot more. but the way you do that is to get a growing, expanding economy. that raises the demand for labor and that means people will have to pay more to hire people. right now we've got a stagnant economy. it grew 0.1 of 1% in the first quarter of this year. the real issue is to get the economy growing and expanding. that will throw off better-paying jobs. and by the way, that's not my numbers. the congressional budget office says that we'll lose up to a million jobs and that's consistent with what i hear from small businesses that i talk to in my state of south dakota and the other thing i'll mention is that south dakota has got this on the ballot this year. there are states that are voting on this. >> i'll toss it to you.

really are people being made to pay $7.25 an hour supposed to wait until the economy expands to a certain extent? that could be year. >> the other thing this goes to is there are two economies at least in the country. there's the financially driven economy, the top are doing extremely well, the markets are up. >> and then there are people being paid $7.25 an hour who are basically on the poverty line. >> and you have the household income going down over a significant period of time. i'm just curious from the senator, senator, is there something that in a kind of grand bargain setting you would trade? you would concede to raise the minimum wage if you got something like an energy bill that appealed to you and your constituents? is this a negotiable issue? >> look, jon, i voted for minimum wage increases in the past when they were coupled with things we thought would create jobs. the problem we have -- and i'm somebody who worked for minimum

wage. i think a lot of people can identify and associate with people who are working at minimum wage levels. a lot of those people are going to be younger people, first jobs, entry level jobs. in my state of south dakota, a lot of seasonal work. we need those jobs and some of those jobs are going to go away if you raise the minimum wage. now, having said that, i think that if you were looking at a 40-hour workweek going back to that, doing some things on keystone, things that we believe will create jobs, that would be a discussion i think republicans would be will to have. but right now we're not getting any indication from the democratic leadership in the senate that they're willing to entertain votes on those issues. we're trying to get votes on energy issues in the midst of this current energy efficiency legislation debate, and senator reid, at least right now, is suggesting there aren't going to be any votes on energy amendments. i hope he's wrong. >> senator, time for a quick yes or no. is human behavior contributing to climate change in a dangerous way that threatens the planet? >> i think that there's obviously a debate about that. my own view is if you accept

that premise, the next question is what are we going to do about it and at what cost. >> so do you accept the premise or not? >> well, i think there are a lot of things going on today that perhaps contribute to it. i'm not denying that. i'm simply saying that the debate ought to be what are we going to do about it and at what cost. you have to do it in a way that doesn't completely crush the economy and destroy jobs for a lot of people in this country. when the environmental gains are going to be very, very minimal, because you still have a world that is not going to play by the same rules that we play by. >> all right, senator john thune, a little slippery today. i'm just saying. >> ask him about the easter bunny. >> no, i will not do that. i really like this man. i do. >> thanks, mika. >> take care. good to see you. award-winning author christopher buckley is here with his new collection about essays. but enough about you. this is perfect. joe, you should come back. we'll find out the story behind the title. also kasie hunt brings us her

investigation into outside money in today's north carolina republican primary. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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here with us now, novelist, essayist, and award-winning author, chris ftopher buckley. he's out with a new collection of essays. >> legend. >> he is a ledge end. >> i love that award-winning part. can you repeat that? >> award-winning. >> would you like a pulitzer like jon has? >> it's actually a lesser known award but it's far more prestigious, being smaller because fewer people get it. >> because everybody gets pulitzers, right? >> well, it seems lately they do. >> so, christopher, but enough about you. you talk about everything -- >> well, the section on bush is a memoir of having been his

speechwriter when he was vice president, and it's titled "the visnew" which is a nickname that he had which i don't think is widely known. he had been to india on a trip. jon meacham probably knew this. if jon meacham didn't know this, i want this footnoted in the book, but he had been on a trip to india and they had given him a statue of the hindu god with a plaque that elaborately described all of the attributes, his omniptence so mr. bush began referring to himself as the vishnew and when we would get on air force one for a trip, this oz-like view was come over the p.a. system and say "this is the vishnew speaking.

the vishnew is well pleased by today's event in baton rudolph giuliani -- rouge." >> but you say he was actually a very humble man who took delight, you say boyish delight in kicking the pedestal out from underneath -- >> he did. well, no, that's not true that we're just beginning to appreciate what a fine man we had in the oval office, but if there is any doubts, jon meacham's book will disspell them. but no, for a flinty, blue-blood yankee, george bush had the tear ducts of a sicilian grandmother. he would cry at the playing of the national anthem. he had a very warm heart. there was a story he liked to tell about reagan. may i tell it? >> yes. >> please. >> do i have time? >> this is "morning joe."

>> i don't want to eat up all my time. we can talk about jon meacham. >> but enough about you. >> this was just after john hinckley had expressed his admiration for jodie foster by shooting president reagan. and mr. bush went to visit president reagan at george washington hospital. and he was ushered into the room and found himself -- there was no president reagan, so he, you know, started looking under the bed. and he heard a voice coming from the bathroom saying, george, i'm in here. and he, you know, with some trepidation looked in and the president of the united states was down on his hands and knees mopping the floor. there was some water. mr. bush said, mr. president, what are you doing? and he said, well, i spilled some water and i didn't want the nurses to have to mop it up.

and it -- it was a story that he told many times until we as his staff couldn't hardly -- we were sick of hearing it but it was a story that probably has been easily been told about george bush himself. he was that kind of guy. >> i continue to believe that your second book, which is your first novel, i think, called "the white house mess" is one of the great comic novels ever. and i'm wondering, these are essays. to what extent is having been in washington, having spent the time around politicians, was that just catnip for someone of your disposition to cast a wry eye? >> if you make your living by making fun of elected officials, washington is a target. there are a lot of low-hanging fruits. >> which you also grew up around

a lot of these folks, kinds of folks. >> yeah, yeah. to be sure. but washington was certainly a disneyland in that sense. "the white house mess," the nonaward-winning -- one of my few books not to have won an award. it was essentially a parody of a white house memoir. anyone who's ever worked at the white house for more than five minutes writes an 800-page book, usually with the word "power" in the title. and these books generally have two themes. one is it wasn't my fault and the second is it would have been much worse if i hadn't been there. >> i was just down in houston for barbara bush's literacy gala -- >> a wonderful event. >> yeah. and the president was there. actually looking good and drinking a martini, which was

nice. >> a very good sign. >> in fact the second martini but he didn't tell barbara that so we have to keep this amongst ourself. but one of the things that made me think, as a foreign policy president he brought the soft landing to the cold war, he also did the kuwait invasion war and he did what we were talking about earlier, make a grand bargain when it came to cutting the deficit. >> to his own great political -- >> as a foreign policy president, i think he may have been the best foreign policy president of our time. >> imagine assembling a coalition today of what was it, 24 countries, including syria. >> also not spiking the ball in the end zone when the berlin wall came down. >> and there were many people, i blush to admit it, myself among them, who at the conclusion of desert storm was left thinking why didn't we go all the way? why stop here? well, as it turned out, that was a very good call. so i think it's -- all i can say

is i can't wait to read jon meacham's book. >> but enough about you, christopher buckley. >> this is the book to read right now. >> actually look at the picture, by the way. look at this. >> oh, my goodness. >> well, my goodness, look at you. >> it's a heavily enhanced photo. >> i like that. >> i like it a lot. >> up next, today in north carolina -- christopher, thank you. today in north carolina, we'll see another example of how big money is influencing politics. kasie hunt has the next installment of her states of play series, along with "the new york times" nick contasori. [ female announcer ] with weight watchers, you can eat this,

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brian sullivan, another major shakeup in the farming world. tell us about it. >> it's incredible. merck selling its consumer products division which includes claritin and dr. scholl's. al le rcrgan -- >> this is big stuff in the big pharma world. what's going on? >> maybe your viewers don't care about the deals themselves but you care about the products that you go to the pharmacy to get and this is going to shake that up, guys. >> why is there shakeup in this sector is what i'm trying to get at? i wasn't being sarcastic with that question. >> that's a good point. you always get right to it. here's the thing. these companies have not had big

hits in years. so they are all literally -- it's like, guess what, i'm going to trade you robinson cano and you give me manny rodriguez. they're just switching players essentially to try to create the best team. does that work? in my history generally not, but we're going to find out. by the way, credit suisse, a $1 million fine for helping rich americans avoid taxes. >> that would be a terrible trade because i have absolutely no idea who manny rodriguez is. today is primary day in north carolina and it's proving to be a big example for how outside money, mika, is influencing this race. >> all the races around the country. joining us now nbc news political reporter kasie hunt with more on our latest states of play. kasie. >> well, it's already a record-breaking year in many respects, but if you do want a snapshot, look no further than north carolina where there are

primaries today. >> in 2014 battleground states, sitting through commercial breaks can be awkward. this midterm contest is already more expensive than the entire 2000 presidential election, and much of it is dark money, from groups that don't have to tell you who their donors are. >> many republican senators these days might as well koch industries insignias. >> in north carolina, 90% of all ads are paid for with outside money. >> north carolina has really become ground zero. president obama won it barely in 2008. mitt romney won it barely in 2012. it's been on everybody's radar since the beginning. >> take republican thom tillis, who's trying to remain the front runner and avoid a runoff in a crowded senate primary. >> my first job, a paper route. >> so far his campaign has spent $2.1 million. add to that more than $2.8 million in tv ads from american

crossroads, the chamber of commerce and other groups. >> kay hagan, wrong for north carolina. >> and then there's americans for prosperity, which has poured $8.2 million into the state. >> families are losing access to the doctors they trust. but kay hagan thinks obamacare's time has come. >> democrat kay hagan and her allies aren't going down without a fight. her campaign has already spent $4.4 million with outside money to match. >> thom tillis shared an apartment with his chief of staff when north carolina news reported that the chief of staff was having an extramarital affair with a lobbyist. >> north carolina is hardly alone. critics say the flood of outside money across the country has shifted control away from candidates. >> honestly it aub fuss kates the message of the candidate sometimes. >> do we wish that the campaign finance system was different? absolutely. but we have to play with the rules we're given. >> others say nothing short of a scandal will clear the air waves. >> what is it going to take to fix the system? >> it's going to take a major

scandal. and there will be a major scandal, i promise you. if i guess, it probably will have to do with foreign money. >> foreign money? >> i believe that there are foreign interests that have an interest in some of our elections. i promise you there will be scandals. there is too much money. >> so, kasie, there's tons of money and tv stations are getting really fast. cash coming in through the vents all across north carolina. how much does it dominate those races on the air waves? >> we talked to the nbc station in raleigh, north carolina, and they say one in five ads right now is a political ad. >> that's exhausting. >> that's a lot of cash for may. you wrote about this -- you reported a little while back that democratic candidates were having to burn through all of their reserves to keep up with outside groups. have democratic outside groups caught up yet? >> you've seen the last few months they have finally got on the air from the left. for months and months and months it was all conservative ads all

the time in state after state. finally in the last months it's begun to equalize. in north carolina the rate of spoengtd left and the right is about the same now. >> we so hear about the koch brothers on the right. who's spending on the left. >> senate majority pac is on the left, funded by a former aide to harry reid. they're the crossroads of the democratic party. >> biggest -- don't ask kasie where she's going next because we're still trying to figure that out. >> we are. >> talk to me about joni ernst. we were showing her ad earlier with the gun. she appeals very far right, obviously. >> yeah. >> but she executes well. >> she presents very well. you know, when i went and talked to her in iowa, she was -- she's clearly still learning. she's at the very beginning of this process of becoming a political candidate but she's come pretty far pretty quickly. what those ads accomplished was to put her on a radar screen in a way that she needed to be because she wasn't able to raise very much money. she was way behind one of her

opponents, mark jake objects, who is a self-funder and the ads gave her the boost that she needed. since then she's gotten endorsements from mitt romney, from sarah palin. he's one of the few who's run under something of a tea party mantle who's also picked up -- >> crossing over a little bit. >> we had mary landrieu on earlier and it's mind boggling that these people are spending. mary had to go up to defend herself. she's got 30-second spots going on right now. how much is that cutting into her reserves in louisiana? >> she was one of the candidates that was having to spend down, but only right after the last filing deadline. her campaign booked a bunch of advertising, hadn't quite paid for all of it at the time, so we're not sure exactly. but look, she is kind of the sleeper surpriser in the sense that she would seem to be so vulnerable, but she's actually doing a lot better than you think she'd be doing. >> it's happening in alaska, it's happening in montana. talk about -- democrats -- again, in all states are

democrats starting to catch up? >> in a lot of states. there was this huge amount of spending, tens of millions of dollars starting in the fall of 2013. so now that it's actually the election year, you see democrats opening up their cash reserves on the outside spending front because they have to catch up and they have to play. >> i used to always say to people that would come that say how did you win, i said it's very easy. you raise money and you don't spend it. that was my way of saying wait until you see the whites of their eyes and the last five, six, seven days you pour it on. that's just not a luxury anymore, jon meacham, that they have. >> i should know this but i don't. what's the political science on the ratio of spending to turnout? that is do we think that this is going to depress it or raise it? >> some studies show that negative ads can depress turnout and it can really all depend. that's why in fact what you see are both sides are now investing a lot more money than in the past on high-tech turnout, on analytics, on voter outreach.

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all right. we've got a lot to talk about coming up, mika.

we're going to talk about what we learned today. >> that's next on "morning joe." >> did you learn a lot? >> i just learned something. >> i did too. >> you guys? >> we'll be right back. >> this is going to be big. we'll be right back. i'm meteorologist bill karins. on this tuesday we have really nice travel weather across the nation. there's some rain out there in the northern plains, but we're going to be pretty much free of thunderstorm activity today, so that's good for turbulence reasons, but it will be very windy and warm from pretty much the southeast right through the midwest today, as warm as 90 degrees in san antonio. have a great day. what if a photo were more than a memory?

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> we talked a lot today about what you brilliant men know so much about. i can't get over it. in fact i've just got to get out of here. yeah. >> i don't even know what that was about. mark. >> mika's paper back is out today and she's a life force. that is awesome. >> a life force that is awesome, exactly. john. >> christopher buckley, look at the best jacket photo ever in history. christopher buckley, but enough about you, on sale today. >> i think i learned from ratner that we really are going to have to focus on energy and all those oil company execs from bp and exxonmobil are going to have to quit going to russia for a while, because i think it's going to be a tough showdown. >> thomas?

>> the creator and writer of "veep," he actually wrote that whole white house correspondents dinner spoof with julia louis-dreyfus and joe biden. got a tip on that, but he's a great guy. he's really got his finger on the pulse of d.c. and he's british. >> and he's british! >> who'd have thunk. >> from a crumbling empire. >> crumbles. >> hey, if it's way too early, mark halperin, what time is it? >> it is "morning joe." right now stay tuned for mr. charles todd. >> i love charles, he's in charge. gone to carolina in my mind. vulnerable democrat kay hagan could find out today who's her midterm matchup. will the gop establishment prevail or will a last-minute house call force a senate primary runoff? plus, m